5 Questions for Julie D. Lawton

I am excited to start off our Five Questions series with a fascinating woman:  Julie D. Lawton, Associate Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Housing & Community Development Legal Clinic at DePaul University College of Law.  I couldn’t help being drawn to Prof. Lawton’s story and I hope you will be too!

1. Before becoming a clinical professor, you practiced corporate and transactional law.  Describe how your journey brought you from a large firm to directing a housing & community development clinic.

That’s a bit of a longer answer about life…I was practicing at a large law firm in Washington, DC enjoying my work, but delaying “living”. When asked when I would (travel, marry, vacation more, start a family…), my answer was always “when I (make partner, get older, make more money…)”. Then Sept 11th, 2001 happened. I was driving down the highway when the plane hit the Pentagon (I worked about 10 minutes away). It was the blackest smoke I have ever seen. The city was in chaos, my family in a minor panic, and my country, and my view of living, forever changed. Afterwards, I read the stories of the victims of the many things they wanted to do in life, but postponed until “when they”… I decided then, that “when” must be now. So, at the end of 2001, I quit my job, sold my house, packed my car and traveled the world for a bit. I went whale watching in Alaska, walked along Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe, had the best Indian food (ever!) in Durban, visited the Valley of a Thousand Hills with the Zulus in South Africa, sat at a point in the Chobe River that is the meeting point of 4 countries, dodged hippos in Botswana, and drove with a lifelong friend from San Francisco to Philadelphia, including visiting the Petrified Forest, the OK City Bombing Memorial, and a meteor site along the way. And, I have been trying to live life every day since. I have traveled to 18 countries, moved to another area of the country, bought a new house, fallen in love, gotten engaged and found my true professional passion in life in teaching. This path has taught me that life is not about the destination, but about the journey, so I enjoy the ride. And, the journey has led me here.

2. Your article “The Imposition of Social Justice Morality in Legal Education” has garnered much press and discussion among us clinical professors.  I must say, regardless of whether I agree or disagree, it felt like a breath of fresh air.  I love open discourse like this.  It is part of the reason I enjoy being in academia.  What was the impetus for writing this article?

As with many articles, the impetus was a variety of events that eventually led to a decision to write about it. From my frustrations with the diversity of clinical offerings when I was a law student, to the frustrations of many of my law students with the diversity of clinical offerings, to the many comments from others I heard that we, as clinical professors, choose cases that reflect our social justice leanings, I thought it appropriate to add my voice to the discussion. Honestly, I was invited to speak at a symposium and wrote this piece for the symposium. I genuinely (and, naively) thought it would be a sleepy little piece that allowed me to flesh out some arguments that had been floating around in my head. I never (ever) expected it to generate such controversy. In truth, I am uncomfortable in the spotlight and would have been perfectly happy for it to have remained a sleepy little piece. However, after so much discussion about it, I accepted that I reinvigorated a discussion about an issue many of us care deeply about, so I decided to “lean-in”. I wrote a companion piece that delves deeper into these questions that will be published in the Indiana Law Review next spring. Here’s hoping our wonderful clinical colleagues will continue to love me!

3. As directors/supervisors of clinical programs, we all have hopes and dreams for what our programs can and could be.  You are the director of DePaul’s Housing & Community Development Legal Clinic. What plans or goals do you have for your clinic during the next five years?

My clinic historically has focused on real estate and affordable housing. However, at my school, DePaul University College of Law in Chicago, more students practice business law upon graduation than real estate law, so I am expanding my legal clinic to incorporate more business and entrepreneurship into client selection. I have established a collaboration with our business school to build more businesses and we are also collaborating with our College of Computing and Digital Media to offer more services to businesses in the area.

4. I’m a new clinician and always love hearing from those with more experience, so what’s one “tip” you would give someone just starting out as a clinical professor?

Find your own voice in life, whether as a lawyer, a parent, or a professor. There are many models from which to choose, and while there are some clear ways to do this wrong, there are few clear ways to do it right. Listen to others, learn different techniques, contemplate and try out which works best for you, and then find, and trust, your own voice. 

5. You’ve lived in Chicago for a few years now, can I safely assume you are a die-hard Cubs (or Sox!), Bulls, BlackHawks and Bears fan?  I grew up watching Michael Jordan fly, the Bears go to Super Bowl XX (and win!), and the Cubs continue to lose in the playoffs, so Chicago sports will always be near and dear to my heart.

Welllll, I am marrying a south-sider who happens to be a Cubs fan, teach students who are die-hard Packers fans, and live in a country with a President who is a Sox fan. So, my lesson learned is to cheer them all; that way, I don’t have to dodge Chicago snowballs as I go about my day.